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Author Topic: Top 5 commercial CMSs  (Read 1144 times)
CMH
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« on: October 31, 2009, 08:18:57 AM »

I'm a student doing an MIS team project at San Jose State University in California, USA.

Our team programmer is probably going to use an open source CMS to build a website for our outside client, but I have to get some information about the top commercial CMS options for comparison.

1) Can somebody give me an idea of the top 5-10 commercial CMS brands?

   By "top" I mean popular, or practical, or stable platforms.

2) My second priority is that they use PHP.

3) If you're a real expert, these features are my other criteria:
   User contributions
   Events calendar
   Mail form
   My page/dashboard
   Classifieds
   Wish lists

I'm the "business guy" on our team, not a techie at all (but I'm learning), so your help will be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Christopher



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chris.p
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2009, 02:04:53 PM »

The 'Top 5' is another 'which is the best...' question and therefore a bit hard to answer - the answer varies according to who you are and what you need it for - and also what your budget is. This last applies especially in commercial CMS as some need a budget of $100k up.

You've supplied some criteria, which makes it a little easier. Probably, 'which are the most expensive commercial cms' and 'which are the most popular commercial cms' are questions that are more easily answered than others. 'Practical' or 'stable' are often subjective measurements although in the area you are enquiring about, are presumed to be standard qualities, although budget restrictions make a difference. Also, 'practical' is an entirely subjective user value. I'd define it as ease of use plus capability at low cost, but someone else would put a different measure on it.

'Stable' infers both high traffic and high page number capability, this can only be determined by asking users of those apps who have large, heavily-loaded sites. Stability is also strongly affected by how much the CMS is extended, since a basic site will inevitably be more solid than one with several major add-ons.

You will also find that a PHP codebase is not necessarily the standard here - there is no standard in commercial CMS as many use Java, ASP, or even TCL. So if you restrict the results to PHP-based CMS then you are effectively selecting a group that may be neither the most popular, 'best', or 'top'.

Here are the top 3 most expensive commercial CMS:

Broadvision
Teamsite
Vignette

[though Broadvision has some less-expensive solutuions now]

'Most popular' by installed site numbers is going to be a hard one to answer, as the stats aren't found easily, or validated for that matter. You might find that the cheapest commercial CMS that is advertised widely is therefore the most popular, for example - which would be Ektron.

However, the question of exactly how to evaluate semi-commercial PHP CMS is important here, as the numbers are significant. For example eZ Publish might be seen as an open-source CMS, or as a commercial one, depending on your viewpoint - as a semi-commercial one it can swing either way.

The core is open-source, the plugins are mostly commercial, and any install except DIY is commercial. A commercial install is commonly from $10k thru $45k depending on what you wanted. Although in theory you could have a basic DIY install for zero, most livesites would have cost a substantial amount. I'd probably describe this as the most popular commercial PHP CMS, as for all practical purposes it's paid not OSS, and it probably has the widest userbase of any fully-capable commercial PHP CMS.

In Java open-source CMS you have the same thing, with Alfresco for example. It can be either OSS or commercial, but realistically, there can't be many free installs of this Java CMS, and most cost from $30k to over $200k - so they're all commercial.

Your other requirements are functions / features. Functions are major capabilities that normally have to be a core requirement, features are usually plugins. Some commercial CMS have few plugins so are expensive to add to.

# User contributions
 - this is the differentiator between a provider-consumer CMS (run by one person or team) and a community - multi-team CMS (contributed to by many).
# My page / dashboard
 - if you mean a user profile / control panel for registered members, most CMS have this; if referring to the admin / backend, again, all CMS have this. In both areas, of course, some are 1000% better than others.
# Mail form
 - all CMS have this.
# Events calendar
 - it's a plugin.
# Classifieds
 - again, a possible plugin, though not all CMS will have it available.
# Wish lists
 - this is normally a feature of an ecommerce application, or here, a shopping cart plugin. So first find a CMS that satisfies your requirements in the ecommerce area, then see if that has a Wishlist plugin. If not, and especially if it's PHP (which has a lot more coders than any other type), you can get the plugin coded.

Lastly, everyone wants the perfect CMS or the best CMS. There is no such thing. The best CMS for you will depend entirely on who you are, what your budget is, what you want to use it for, and what your personal scale of values is for the various options.

For me, quality is the overriding factor, assuming all others are met. My way of defining this would be as a measure of all visible quality factors (such as clean code, W3C validation and standards compliance, and good accessibility score), combined with search friendliness (acceptability to search engines - which in practice is a combination of all the preceding factors - ie a good measure of the overall quality score). If the admin is easy to use that's a bonus - but often missing.

Another interesting question you could also ask to determine an answer to the question of which CMS are of high quality is, "Which CMS have existing, provable livesites built to accessibility level AAA?". Only those of the highest quality can achieve this, or at least, at a sane cost without having had to be totally reconstructed. There are some Java CMS out there of appallingly low quality, and high cost seems to make no difference. There are plenty of high-cost trashy ASP CMS as well - so maybe you need to ask, "Which CMS should I avoid?", which is just as valid a question as which ones to shortlist.

So, for a wrap-up: commercial CMS use many codebases apart from PHP. If your features list is by any chance what your project client needs, then I'd go for Drupal or eZ Publish, assuming that a standard web publishing solution is needed, along with ACL and a reasonable number of plugins, plus the possibility of coding them if they don't exist. The end cost would be minimised then, which seems the best idea for an .edu project.

By the time you're done, the result will be commercial even though one starts as OSS and the other is semi-OSS. Drupal is a PHP app that can be remote-installed on any LAMP server, ie standard hosting. eZ Publish has an unusual PHP usage and therefore is best placed on a dedibox or one with all-eZ products. It also uses WebDAV in case that's of interest; and will cost a lot more than Drupal by the end of the project. To compare these with the functionality / features of other CMS, the simplest way is to check out cmsmatrix.org, which has a nice feature list / matrix. But remember that a check in the box just means a feature is basically present, it doesn't tell you how good it is or what the problems with a given CMS are.

The issues that each and every CMS has is a whole different subject Smiley
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CMH
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2009, 09:26:39 PM »

Thank you for your excellent answer and explanations. I fell very lucky to have fallen in with an expert.

I'm also very impressed with the a3webtech website and company -- you now have a new fan in Silicon Valley.

I'm also going to pass your comments on to our programming team.

Christopher
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chris.p
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« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2009, 09:52:51 PM »

OK, thanks for the kind words. We try and help, and to provide some good resources. Even senior search engine management have praised the site, and they can be miserable B's Smiley

The web seems a good example of the "help others and you get helped back" way of doing things, it works for us.

Perhaps if you get a chance, you could give the site a link - we don't do much promo, so we have very few links. And good luck with your project.
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Broom
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2010, 10:50:02 PM »

Hi,

I read the detailed answer below and was interested in what your thoughts/suggestions are for an ASP based CMS system that ranges from open source up to approx £10k?

Types of functionality include:

> Work flow (to include editing, publishing (approval/reject)
> WYSIWYG editor
> Document manger
> Image manager
> The ability to change page names and change the hierarchy of pages
> RSS module
> Events module
> News module
> Wiki Module
> A-Z module
> Blog module
> Tag cloud module
> Social bookmarking module
> The ability to add tracking tags
> Content sharing (e.g. share news or events articles across pages of the site to generic management)
> User management (to be able to display content to specific user types)
> Online form builder
> Advanced search allowing for searching within uploaded documents
> At least AA standard, but AAA would be preferred

Look forward to hearing from you.

Many thanks,
Steve (from UK)
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chris.p
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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2010, 03:56:43 PM »

Steve,

Options in the ASP CMS world are not as prolific as in the LAMP world so you need to have good reasons to go this route. Costs can be higher as this is proprietary technology, not open-source.

Make sure to use an MS SQL Server DB, not Access, whatever the pressure to do otherwise. In fact, avoid anyone telling you an Access DB is a possible solution on a server.

One factor in ASP CMS is that you need to be especially careful with the hosting since these CMS have an additional hosting factor not seen in LAMP: the need to run under a Full Trust, High Trust or Medium Trust environment. Most shared hosting runs under Medium Trust so is not viable for some ASP CMS. There are High Trust hosts though and many ASP WCMS will run under this. Full Trust is only available on a dedicated server so if your proposed CMS needs it, you need a dedibox or maybe VPS (a server with from 2 to 10 sites on, each with their own partition on the server). I'm not a fan of VPS though as there are numerous issues for busy sites, it's better for light traffic or test sites.

You have a reasonable budget although it's a little tight for commercial CMS. For example you might be able to bring in a small, simple site with Colony or Sitekit but it will be very close.

DNN, DotNetNuke looks to be your best bet but unfortunately I'm not an ASP CMS guy so I might be way off. DNN has a lot of resources and the spec you quote definitely needs an enterprise-class CMS. In LAMP you'd be looking at eZ Publish, or maybe Drupal with a lot of dev work. You'd be hard pushed to get a decent eZ Publish site up for under £10k, it's all about whether you can find the right devs to build it at that price. Lots of research needed there.

Umbraco is another possibility in ASP but you are putting a massive punt on the quality of the lead dev here, as in Umbraco the dev builds the CMS from the ground up. You'd need to find a guy who'd contract to build it using XSLT as against .NET methodology, as .NET usercontrols are a low-class solution compared with XSLT. I'm assuming that you must have a lot of background in ASP / .NET otherwise there would be few reasons to go for an ASP CMS, unless you already have a favourite contractor and that's what they use.

I think DNN would handle your quoted spec although there might be some custom work to get every widget you quote. The big issue is the accessibility rating, AA is a tough one for most devs to get to. And believe me it is the dev who makes or breaks it here. You have to start with a CMS that can potentially achieve it, then find a dev who has some comprehension of standards compliance and accessibility factors. As far as going for an AAA rating is concerned - hah! Right now, that is world class quality and there aren't that many people who can build a CMS to AAA. It is entirely down to developer quality and since most haven't a clue about CMS quality issues, you're looking for the best of the best.

If you check the basic quality scores for big commercial CMS implementations that cost £50k and up, you'll find straightaway that the quality is simply appalling in many cases. Implementers as a whole just don't get it. So, trying to get something built commercially for under £10k with an AA rating, never mind AAA, might be a tough call as it all hangs on if you can find the right guy.

I do know a contractor who can build in ASP at this level, using one of the iControl frameworks, and it's possible he might be able to fix it for you at around your budget. If you don't get anywhere then I'll see if he can help you out.

Otherwise I think you might have to accept level A as a realistic target. Obviously you don't want something that fails at that basic level. Another thing you can do is just to simply check the index page of portfolio sites shown to you as examples, at the W3 validator [ http://validator.w3.org ]. Somebody showing you a CMS portfolio site with 40 or 50 code errors on the front page obviously doesn't have a clue, and there are a whole lot of them around - the majority in fact.

You can also find plenty of online accessibility level checkers, and they can be handy. In the end, it all depends on exactly how close you must keep to your declared spec, and if you can find the right guys to achieve it and with your specified quality level. Doing that within your budget will be fun. You need to ensure the build contract is watertight because I can tell you what will happen: if the spec is actually achieved there will be a time and cost overrun.

You never pay more than 50% up front until the CMS is online and fully tested to comply with your spec, especially on the quality issues. You'll get a ton of promises but you need to be very wary of anyone who insists you pay more upfront, without seeing proven examples at the quality level you specify. There are many promises made here but some turn out to be pure fantasy, a track record is the best pointer to future success. And check they really built it, not somebody else. The hardest thing to find right now is an implementer who can build to high quality at a reasonable budget - which I guess is fair enough, as you're talking about unusually capable people, looking at the general standard out there.
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Broom
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 04:25:55 PM »

Hey Chris,

Thanks for the feedback and info.
What would you suggest/recommend if we didn't have to go down the ASP route? Basically I'm a PM that's trying to get this info for a pitch I'm working on at the moment and the common skill set with current internal devs in ASP. However, we may need to employ another dev soon which of course could have a different skill set e.g. PHP.

I do have experience in DNN from a previous job where we built an internal solution for our clients. Although the end result was stable and reasonably comprehensive I found that it wasn't a great journey to get to this point. We outsourced the dev for this and the first issue that was realised after we'd released our first DNN site for a client was that the code within the core had been changed, a big no-no which caused lots of problems! However, there is a huge library of extensions available to purchase.

Many thanks,
Steve
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chris.p
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 05:44:55 PM »

Yes, there are lots of plus and minus reports for DNN.

I think eZ publish is the best choice in economical enterprise-class CMS at the moment. There are some caveats though: it uses webDAV for some development, and this is yet another thing to learn for newcomers. Hosting can be an issue because you shouldn't really use shared hosting as it uses their custom PHP accelerator, not Zend like most other PHP webapps. That means you need a dedibox unless you can find shared hosting with all-eZ apps on the box. Anyway I guess this will be going on a dedicated server though.

Plone is a similar level if you prefer Python as the base code. Alfresco open-source version is similar in Java.

Ektron might be worth looking at, it is an economical commercial ASP CMS, but I know nothing about it.

I've just pulled out a couple of ASP CMS matrix feature comparison charts, if you email me I'll send you them.

I'm not sure if you are being realistic to go for the whole job yourself, implementing and supporting an enterprise class CMS tends to be something that people get to after building a whole lot of smaller ones. Maybe you might consider partnering with someone in some way; they build it to 90%, you migrate content, finish the templates, polish it up, you support it, you provide the docs and training. If your guys are ASP then it makes sense to stay with that.

Partnering with someone so that you act as the frontend interface with the client is often a good move for both you and the core builder, since he saves a whole lot of time and money if the client liaison is removed.

C.
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Broom
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2010, 08:30:33 AM »

Hey Chris,

Thanks again for this info. What's your email address?

Steve
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chris.p
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2010, 01:30:22 PM »

Please use the Contact form on the main site.
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